blue_luke posted:
I need to build a 32 channels 1 in 3 out mic splitter.
Having looked at some ready built product (and fell off my chair when I contemplated the price for such a gadget! ) I am now contemplating making my own..
How you guys would go about it? using edcor transformers of course!
Any suggestion for a schematic?<
Luc, Montreal Canada
-------------------------
Brian Weston replied:
We have had number of people asked about making splitters. EDCOR builds some splitters that have 1 in and 2 out. The splitters that we build use two transformers. EDCOR has also developed a quadfilar matching transformer that has been used for a number of applications including a splitter with 1 in and 3 out. The model number is XS4400, 12 pin PC mounted. There is also the XS4401 version. It is the same as the XS4400 but is channel mounted and Euro connectors. Here is also a diagram and plot of the unit.
I hope this can help.
-------------------------
blue_luke replied:
Hi Brian!
Actually, I did a bit of research and found that what I need is a 1:1:1 transformer.
The primary is hooked directly to a XLR 3-F and looped back to an XLR-3M, then the two secondaries are hooked to an XLR-3M.
What I need to do is split the mic signals to A: our recording gears, B: the FOH mixer, C the monitor mixers.
I read superficially a paper from Jansen transformers about a splitter schematic and there is a discussion about loading the unused outputs, install or not a ground-lift switch etc...
What are your thoughts about mic splitting.
Also I found that some manufacturers insist that each secondaries must be isolated with a copper static shield. How important is that feature?
I want to have the best quality signal possible for the recording, without degrading to much the PA system signals.
I guess if I take good care in designing the units without ground loops, good shielding and quality components I can get good results.
The average price I found on the net for ready made units is about 100$ per channel.
I figure I can build an 8 channels unit for about 25$ / ch plus the cost of the transformers.
What kind of price are we talking here for the Edcor transformers you suggested?
I would need one primary, and two secondaries.
I also found the ART units, 8 channels in a 1 unit high rack-mount, but I wonder about the quality of these units, badly designed and built Chinese transformers? I dunno...
Luc
-------------------------
Brian Weston replied:
In your first post you said that you needed 1 in and 3 out. That would mean that you would need a 1:1:1:1 transformer. Like the XS4400. If you are looking for just one in and 2 out then we also have a transformer that would work for that.
For the ground loop problems, if you run the transformers in a balanced mode and do not connect the ground together, but to their center taps then you should not have a lopping problem. The XS4400 is a fully isolated transformer, meaning that each winding is separated.
As for the shielding between each winding, this is a funny problem. The shielding is good for some environments that may inject noise into the transformer, but it has a cost and that is frequency response. When it comes to audio transformers, the saying the bigger the better deals with the saturation of the core and low frequency. A low frequency saturates the core before the high frequencies do. So a transformer with a low frequency of 20Hz will be bigger then that of one around 100Hz. Now for the high end, this is where the down fall of the shielding comes into play. The better the coupling of the signal from the primary to the secondary the better the high end is. This can be accomplished in two ways, interleaving of the windings or winding all the windings together at once (bifilar, trifilar, etc.). By adding a shield between the winds prevents the use of these winding techniques and drops the high end frequencies. Of course bifilar, trifilar, Quadfilar and so on are the better of the two and will produce better coupling, but it is really only practical on a transformer that has all the same windings, like a 1:1. EDCOR does not use shielding between the winding because of this. To get the shielding, most use a metal case or can, like steel, copper or mu-metal (nickel). The type of case metal would depend on the type of environment, but in most cases a steel or copper can would work just fine. Some out there will only use mu-metal, but this really made for environments that have very high sources that can inject noise. Remember that mu-metal was designed for the Navy for around d radar installations. EDCOR does not supply any cans because of the hundreds of different sizes that we build it would be very hard to keep a case or can in for each type. If you need a metal can then I would suggest searching for a dealer on the internet. EDCOR dose how ever offer copper shield around the core, which will work in most cases.
As for a imported transformer, that is a tough call, You really need to look at the type of copper and core (steel) they use. China does product some good products, but also some not so good.
I hope this helps.
-------------------------
blue_luke replied:
Hi again
Actually, when I posted my first message I knew zilch about splitters...
Now, thanks to you notably, I know and understand more about these.
A mic splitter is quite a simple device in principle, and I did not realize the fact that there is a "through" or direct out and two secondaries. So my 3 "outputs" are in fact a direct and two isolated outs, so the transfo would indeed be a 1:1:1.
What model number you would suggest and at what price? (for 32 units)
Luc
-------------------------
Brian Weston replied:
If you are looking for 1 in and 2 out it would be PCW600/600/600. It would work for mic splitting.
If you are looking for 1 in and 3 out then it would be XS4400.
You would need to contact our sales department for pricing.
I need to build a 32 channels 1 in 3 out mic splitter.
Having looked at some ready built product (and fell off my chair when I contemplated the price for such a gadget! ) I am now contemplating making my own..
How you guys would go about it? using edcor transformers of course!
Any suggestion for a schematic?<
Luc, Montreal Canada
-------------------------
Brian Weston replied:
We have had number of people asked about making splitters. EDCOR builds some splitters that have 1 in and 2 out. The splitters that we build use two transformers. EDCOR has also developed a quadfilar matching transformer that has been used for a number of applications including a splitter with 1 in and 3 out. The model number is XS4400, 12 pin PC mounted. There is also the XS4401 version. It is the same as the XS4400 but is channel mounted and Euro connectors. Here is also a diagram and plot of the unit.
I hope this can help.
-------------------------
blue_luke replied:
Hi Brian!
Actually, I did a bit of research and found that what I need is a 1:1:1 transformer.
The primary is hooked directly to a XLR 3-F and looped back to an XLR-3M, then the two secondaries are hooked to an XLR-3M.
What I need to do is split the mic signals to A: our recording gears, B: the FOH mixer, C the monitor mixers.
I read superficially a paper from Jansen transformers about a splitter schematic and there is a discussion about loading the unused outputs, install or not a ground-lift switch etc...
What are your thoughts about mic splitting.
Also I found that some manufacturers insist that each secondaries must be isolated with a copper static shield. How important is that feature?
I want to have the best quality signal possible for the recording, without degrading to much the PA system signals.
I guess if I take good care in designing the units without ground loops, good shielding and quality components I can get good results.
The average price I found on the net for ready made units is about 100$ per channel.
I figure I can build an 8 channels unit for about 25$ / ch plus the cost of the transformers.
What kind of price are we talking here for the Edcor transformers you suggested?
I would need one primary, and two secondaries.
I also found the ART units, 8 channels in a 1 unit high rack-mount, but I wonder about the quality of these units, badly designed and built Chinese transformers? I dunno...
Luc
-------------------------
Brian Weston replied:
In your first post you said that you needed 1 in and 3 out. That would mean that you would need a 1:1:1:1 transformer. Like the XS4400. If you are looking for just one in and 2 out then we also have a transformer that would work for that.
For the ground loop problems, if you run the transformers in a balanced mode and do not connect the ground together, but to their center taps then you should not have a lopping problem. The XS4400 is a fully isolated transformer, meaning that each winding is separated.
As for the shielding between each winding, this is a funny problem. The shielding is good for some environments that may inject noise into the transformer, but it has a cost and that is frequency response. When it comes to audio transformers, the saying the bigger the better deals with the saturation of the core and low frequency. A low frequency saturates the core before the high frequencies do. So a transformer with a low frequency of 20Hz will be bigger then that of one around 100Hz. Now for the high end, this is where the down fall of the shielding comes into play. The better the coupling of the signal from the primary to the secondary the better the high end is. This can be accomplished in two ways, interleaving of the windings or winding all the windings together at once (bifilar, trifilar, etc.). By adding a shield between the winds prevents the use of these winding techniques and drops the high end frequencies. Of course bifilar, trifilar, Quadfilar and so on are the better of the two and will produce better coupling, but it is really only practical on a transformer that has all the same windings, like a 1:1. EDCOR does not use shielding between the winding because of this. To get the shielding, most use a metal case or can, like steel, copper or mu-metal (nickel). The type of case metal would depend on the type of environment, but in most cases a steel or copper can would work just fine. Some out there will only use mu-metal, but this really made for environments that have very high sources that can inject noise. Remember that mu-metal was designed for the Navy for around d radar installations. EDCOR does not supply any cans because of the hundreds of different sizes that we build it would be very hard to keep a case or can in for each type. If you need a metal can then I would suggest searching for a dealer on the internet. EDCOR dose how ever offer copper shield around the core, which will work in most cases.
As for a imported transformer, that is a tough call, You really need to look at the type of copper and core (steel) they use. China does product some good products, but also some not so good.
I hope this helps.
-------------------------
blue_luke replied:
Hi again
Actually, when I posted my first message I knew zilch about splitters...
Now, thanks to you notably, I know and understand more about these.
A mic splitter is quite a simple device in principle, and I did not realize the fact that there is a "through" or direct out and two secondaries. So my 3 "outputs" are in fact a direct and two isolated outs, so the transfo would indeed be a 1:1:1.
What model number you would suggest and at what price? (for 32 units)
Luc
-------------------------
Brian Weston replied:
If you are looking for 1 in and 2 out it would be PCW600/600/600. It would work for mic splitting.
If you are looking for 1 in and 3 out then it would be XS4400.
You would need to contact our sales department for pricing.
Brian Weston
Tech Support
EDCOR Electronics Corporation
Tech Support
EDCOR Electronics Corporation
